elf: Quote: She is too fond of books, and it has turned her brain (Fond of Books)
elf ([personal profile] elf) wrote in [community profile] ebooks2012-03-06 06:35 am

Definition games: Ebooks vs books (with a side of fanfic)

March 4-10 is Read An Ebook Week (officially, read an ebook month in Canada) and for the last couple of years I've wondered, does fanfic count?. I've been pondering the difference between "documents" and "ebooks" a lot recently, because I'm involved with a publishing company and I'm also converting some fanfic to ebook formats. The subject matter is similar. The writing quality is similar. I do about the same work for both kinds of documents… only, when I'm done, some are "ebooks" and some are "just fanfic."

"Ebook" is currently a word lacking a useful definition. It stands for "electronic book," and forty years ago, when Michael Hart started Project Gutenberg, that was an obvious and simple thing. Book in hand, computer on desk (or on wall, depending); transfer contents of A into container B; poof, ebook. Not so simple anymore… a "book" means something (although that's a bit blurry, too; are pamphlets "books?" Are magazines?); we (mostly) recognize a "book" when we see it. Everyone knows what a "book" is. Or at least, what a book was, a few decades ago.

"Books" had two notable traits that separated them from other documents:
1) They were fixed. Frozen. You can't change them. You can mark them up, but the markings were obviously in addition to the "book" content.

2) They came from Real Publishers™. You couldn't make one with your little home printer; you couldn't even get one made from the local copyshop. At best, you could get a comb-bound imitation of a Real Book.

These two led to the assumption of a third trait:

3) They had high-quality content, or at least content of some value—because the other two aspects made them expensive to produce, and nobody would do that for dreck unless they had money to burn. Vanity press publications were small enough that they could be discounted as a tiny group of exceptions. (This led to the correlated assumption, "if your writing was any good, it'd be In Books." And plenty of fanficcers have fought against that—we know that "printed on pages" is not a measure of quality; it doesn't prove something is good, and lack of a publication schedule certainly doesn't indicate low quality writing.)

I digress. The point is, an "ebook" no longer means "contents that had been published in 'book' form, transferred to a digital file." Ebooks include a lot of things that have never been released in print form. It's no longer obvious what makes an "ebook"—and that means it's not entirely obvious what a "book" is.

Here, I'll simplify: In my opinion, a "book" is a finished product. A "document" or a "manuscript" is not.

Clear as mud?
Right.
Moving on.

Are fanfic zines "books?" Are PDFs of zines "ebooks?" Is any single download from AO3 an "ebook?" Sure, it can be downloaded in an ebook format—but how many of us count individual ficlets in our ebooks-I've-read count?

Do they only become ebooks if downloaded and loaded onto an external device, and remain "documents" or "fics" if read on a web browser on a desktop or laptop?

These are only semi-rhetorical questions, because they tangle into the whole "line between fanfic and other publishing" thing. (Not so much fanfic-vs-profic, which has an obviou$ $tatu$ marker.) (Erm, where does that leave fanfic authors who write for charity donations? Or who take commissions?) Where's the line between "fan writer" and "published author?"

What's the difference between big-name fanfic authors and Joe Konrath? (Besides half a million dollars a year.) Book cover art? The fact that much fanfic is about copyrighted subjects, and maybe is too derivative to be published for money?

Hard to tell, that last one. The unauthorized sequel to Salinger's Catcher in the Rye was ruled to be infringement; the different-perspective retelling of Gone with the Wind was ruled not (or at least, close enough to not that they could go ahead and sell it). The line between "parody" and "derivative" is legally thin—and of course, anything in the public domain is free to be written about. Is there a categorical literary difference between Wide Sargasso Sea and Not Every Gentleman? (Disclaimer: I haven't read the fic. I looked at word counts, hit counts, comments & bookmarks to pick something novel-length and of presumably high quality.)

For those who aren't writing in public-domain fandoms, "file the serial numbers off" has become a well-known practice in fanfic-to-profic publishing. In some fandoms, it's likely that's not even necessary. Yuletide gets fic based on songs, videos, picture books, metafannish concepts…someone could put together an anthology of "15 great Yuletide stories" (with consent! Not talking about stealing anyone's stories!) and publish it on Smashwords and Amazon, either at a nominal price ($.99?) or for free—and then those fanficcers would be Published Authors.

Whatever that means.

Setting aside the gift economy and fanficdom community issues… there's all these stories with nothing that objectively distinguishes them from "self-published" works for free or for sale on the various ebook sales sites. I am delighted by this. I am thrilled that the publishing universe is so scrambled that the only way to tell what's worth reading is by figuring out what's quality writing—that there's no objective external measurement like "is published into bookstores" or "has been through a professional editor" or "if it's available for free online, it must be junk."

None of those are true anymore. Not that they ever were, but they used to be mostly-effective ways of filtering quality from garbage, even if they had both false positives & false negatives.

I look at the self-published freebies at Smashwords, and oh my fanficcy friends… your writing is better than most of what's there. Your writing is better than a lot of the for-pay self-published works at Smashwords, because much of it is by people with delusions of talent who think they just need a venue to Get Recognized and become famous authors.

You know better. Being amazingly talented doesn't get you recognized outside of your little fandom niche. Making money from your craft doesn't mean it's higher quality; it means you've found a market niche. And spending many hours writing a story doesn't automatically make it a better story, nor does spending many hours formatting it make it higher quality. (Those only work when done well.) Putting it on AO3 instead of Smashwords doesn't make you less of an author; it just means you're writing for a different community, with different rules and standards.

I am *loving* the utter chaos in the publishing industries right now.
scribblesinink: Letters spelling the word Books (neutral books)

[personal profile] scribblesinink 2012-03-06 04:36 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, I love how blurry the lines have gotten!
schneefink: River walking among trees, from "Safe" (Default)

[personal profile] schneefink 2012-03-06 05:48 pm (UTC)(link)
+1 to this :) Thanks for summing it up so well.
pipisafoat: image of virgin mary with baby jesus & text “abstinence doesn’t work" (radek)

[personal profile] pipisafoat 2012-03-06 11:32 pm (UTC)(link)
Quite coherent, and quite appreciated - thanks for sharing!
colls: (GEN typewriter)

[personal profile] colls 2012-03-06 06:03 pm (UTC)(link)
In regards to a tangent you mentioned, I do find it rather amusing that I find some fanfic I read to be of higher quality than some of the published stuff out there.
I have non-fandom friends who 'oo' and 'aw' over some of the paranormal urban fantasy stuff out there, and I'll read it and think it's really, really horrible, trite and OMG so Mary Sue....

Also, I do love the ePUB option on AO3. I don't know if I'd read big bangs on my computer, it's so much more convenient on my eReader.
moth2fic: violets plus caption 'spring' (Default)

[personal profile] moth2fic 2012-03-06 07:04 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks for teasing out all the threads in this!

I completely agree that a great deal of fanfic writing is better than some 'published' writing and I would say this applies to some printed books from professional publishers as well as to self published works.

I also agree that the lines between different types of texts are blurred - but that's the way it always used to be until the rise of the big publishers.

I also find myself in a quandary.

I write fanfic and 'publish' it on AO3, on DW and on LJ. I get lovely comments and kudos from my f'list, people in the comms I belong to and complete strangers.

I also write original fic (no filing off of serial numbers - this is actually original) and if I want to share it with a wider public than my f'list I have only two options. I can submit it to professional publishers and join the lottery that is today's publishing industry. (I don't need the hassle and to be honest I don't need the money, such as it is.) Or I can self-publish on Smashwords or Kindle (or via Lulu etc) in which case I risk people whose opinions I respect dismissing my work as likely to be of lower value than my fanfic. I believe my two types of fic are of an equal standard and I know I am not alone among fanfic writers in writing original fic.

There's dross on both sides of the fence and the only thing people can do is read and judge for themselves. (Whilst remembering that there is no equivalent of AO3 for our original work.)

moth2fic: violets plus caption 'spring' (Default)

[personal profile] moth2fic 2012-03-06 09:16 pm (UTC)(link)
PDT is not a problem - if you have a computer at all you just download Calibre (free, though donations are appreciated) and it does the conversions for you for upload to your e-reader.

I would never upload to an archive with a single maintainer, however broadminded they were. Nor would I put my stuff among lots of non-fiction etc. Plus, marketing it would be too difficult. I can't see some of my writing group/family/friends looking through something like that with no decent search engine.

And while I'm saying I'm not in the market for the dubious royalty rewards of mainstream publishing, that doesn't mean I intend to publish for free. On AO3 I get feedback, and the chance to read a lot of wonderful work by other people. For my original fic I certainly want a small financial return, if only for the work of formatting it. Then I would hope to attract more readers by having a book they like and sequels or further books.

Basically, I agree with most of what you say, but I think you are doing a disservice to a lot of people who write both kinds of fic by suggesting/encouraging the idea that most self-published work is bad. Yes, some of it is; perhaps quite a lot. But so is some fanfic. To some extent it's subjective. I have read some truly horrendous (to me) fics which clearly pleased the authors and their f'lists.
moth2fic: violets plus caption 'spring' (Default)

[personal profile] moth2fic 2012-03-06 11:02 pm (UTC)(link)
You're right, it's glorious. And if Paypal and the banks have their way it will be diminished. (I assume you've seen the current fuss?)
moth2fic: violets plus caption 'spring' (Default)

[personal profile] moth2fic 2012-03-06 11:39 pm (UTC)(link)
I sent Paypal a long email detailing my concerns. I have no idea how much notice they take of individuals but at least someone has to sit and read it. Keep up the good work!!
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[personal profile] jumpuphigh 2012-03-12 05:28 am (UTC)(link)
if you have a computer at all you just download Calibre (free, though donations are appreciated) and it does the conversions for you for upload to your e-reader.


That only works if the person who created the PDF file initially formatted it in a way that Calibre can then translate into a decent file. I've take a lot of PDFs that look great on my laptop, converted them into epub, put them on my ereader, and then, after trying to read them with the most )#*$)(#* up formatting for a few pages, have deleted them while sighing.
jumpuphigh: Pigeon with text "jumpuphigh" (Default)

[personal profile] jumpuphigh 2012-03-13 06:11 am (UTC)(link)
Don't you need a Pro version of Adobe to do that?
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[personal profile] jumpuphigh 2012-03-13 02:29 pm (UTC)(link)
I asked because I am wondering how many people actually have and use it. I have never owned it. I've never used it for any of my jobs ever.
jumpuphigh: 42 (42)

[personal profile] jumpuphigh 2012-03-13 02:52 pm (UTC)(link)
If you're having problems with PDFs, ping me; if I can fix them, I'm happy to.

Thank you. I'll keep that in mind. In the last year and a half since getting my ereader, I have been able to find more and more epubs so PDFs are less of an issue for me now than they were a year ago. Still, I do have the occasional one where that is the only file version offered.

moth2fic: violets plus caption 'spring' (Default)

[personal profile] moth2fic 2012-03-13 09:50 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm really surprised at what you say, as I've never had any problems and I must have converted dozens and dozens of pdfs - mostly downloaded from AO3 but sometimes turned into pdfs by me from downloads from LJ, Fanfiction, etc. or from websites. The only problem I have ever had was from a published writer's website where her free download turned out to be too small to deal with on my Kindle, even altering fonts etc. and I had to read it on my laptop.

However, I notice Smashwords are now advising people not to use Calibre to convert for upload to Smashwords so there must be some incompatitibilty somewhere. My e-reader is a Kindle and uses mobi so maybe it't the epub format that has the problems. That's sad! Perhaps there will be some attempt to make the formats work together? Or perhaps that's hoping too much.

I have had one or two things that I have had to accept in epub format and it does seem to be more problematic than other things. For example I subscribed to a book on Unbound Books and when it was published got an epub version by default. My laptop won't read it but if I load it into Calibre I can then read in Calibre's own reader screen.

It seems very churlish of the various companies not to work at making everything compatible. They probably quote competition etc. but it is hardly consumer-friendly!
moth2fic: violets plus caption 'spring' (Default)

[personal profile] moth2fic 2012-03-14 10:45 am (UTC)(link)
Thank you for that information! I'm not at all technically minded and just learn each gadget as it comes along (e.g. my Kindle) and it's really good to get an explanation like this. The Firefox plug-in sounds good too.
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[personal profile] cesy 2012-03-09 02:58 pm (UTC)(link)
I have a few DW friends who write original fic, and several of them self-publish on their journals, for free. It means they get the comment feedback, rather than the money, but works for them at the moment.
moth2fic: horse against castle/caption: who does not hold within them vast worlds? (writing_worlds)

[personal profile] moth2fic 2012-03-09 03:30 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, I know some people who do that too. Frankly, I want a wider public if I can possibly get it. And I don't particularly want to work for free, just don't need the hassle of the normal route to professional publication for the pitifully small returns and incresingly poor marketing. I already share my stuff with my online (Yahoo) writing group and through my f'locked LJ and get plenty of feedback. That's what's pointing me towards self-publishing. Also, the blog format isn't ideal for novels - you spam everybody's reading page or you create an artificial WIP. That's what's so wonderful about AO3 for long fanfic!
ilthit: (Default)

[personal profile] ilthit 2012-03-06 08:30 pm (UTC)(link)
I have to say, a Yuletide collection would be cool.
ilthit: (Default)

[personal profile] ilthit 2012-03-06 09:13 pm (UTC)(link)
It's just a shame it would take such a long time. It's not only contacting the authors, it's combing through and reading all that fic, too.
finch: (Default)

[personal profile] finch 2012-03-07 03:00 am (UTC)(link)
I wonder if it'd be easier to start with a theme - pick a semi-popular public domain fandom, or Bible Fic or Specific Mythology Fic or fics based on Green Day songs, and go from there? It'd cut down on the amount of necessary reading.

The other option, I suppose, would be to ask for recs in [community profile] yuletide and/or [livejournal.com profile] yuletide
ilthit: (Default)

[personal profile] ilthit 2012-03-07 03:03 am (UTC)(link)
Also it would explain why it's restricted to fandoms that aren't likely to sue, without having to bring legality into the conversation at all. Songfic in general could be a theme, too, or, like, 60s songs.
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[personal profile] holyschist 2012-03-08 07:15 am (UTC)(link)
It would be pretty straightforward to put together some amazing historical RPF ("historical fiction") or fairytale ("fairytale") anthologies out of Yuletide, although you might need to theme more tightly.

Although what I think would be most amazing would be something for the wacky AUs of public domain stuff, e.g. Hamlet in space or the Lovecraft Hamlet fusions...
lunabee34: (reading by thelastgoodname)

[personal profile] lunabee34 2012-03-06 10:26 pm (UTC)(link)
This is really interesting. Thanks for making me think about something I haven't really spent much time considering.
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[personal profile] yourlibrarian 2012-03-07 09:20 pm (UTC)(link)
I totally agree about the randomness of "quality" when it comes to published, self-published, and not-even-intended-as-a-book. One of things I find so interesting about fanfic is that so much of it is written for a community of readers in a way that I doubt most commercially published material is -- and when it isn't, it shows.

(Anonymous) 2012-03-12 06:46 am (UTC)(link)
This is fascinating to think about. Thank you.

It makes me wonder, are there any well-trafficked, well-run sites that host self-published ebooks of original fiction online? It strikes me that it could follow a similar model to Baen Books' free online library...offer some works for free, new authors or the first book(s) (or chapter(s)) in a series. And it could have some sort of pay-for-the-ebook thing set up if someone wants to buy a book in question or maybe for the later books in an author's series. Reviews and recommendations could bring authors' work to more readers the same way they do in fan archives, mitigating the problem self-published ebook authors have with publicizing. Just thinking out loud here...I didn't even start thinking about this until reading what you wrote, but this sort of thing seems so doable with today's technology; is anyone doing it? Does anyone know? I would love to browse an online library of self-published original fiction. (Maybe this already exists somewhere and I've just completely missed it?)

(Anonymous) 2012-03-12 10:16 pm (UTC)(link)
Wow, thank you! I'd heard of Smashswords but apparently ended up on the wrong site before somehow (?) and thought it was something else, which...wow, I'm so glad to know about it for what it is! ::goes to start browsing::

I see what you're saying about the difficulties. I wonder if there *would* be any way to striate quality for better word-of-mouth. Hopefully as people start taking advantage of the technology someone will find a good business model...

Thanks again!